Subject: PMP> prtInputMedia...Dims

From: "Harry Lewis <[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 13:51:39 MST

We went over this in the call, and I don't think there were any cases where
Declared and Chosen really differed. What we didn't cover, however, is
how many vendors implemented Declared as r/w vs. how many just map the
Chosen value into the Declared?

Isn't this important interop info? I don't know why a "show of hands"
wouldn't suffice, here.

Harry Lewis

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From: JK Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 20:42:59 -0500 (EST)

Harry,

After reading your message, I think our ship has just scraped the
veritable tip of the bloody iceberg...

The concepts of "Chosen" and "Declared" have got to be some of the most
obtuse aspects of the Printer MIB.  (I won't go into the definitions
here, though; please see the MIB for pure S&M delight...)

As I recall, "Chosen" and "Declared" were SUPPOSED to be used for
configuration-oriented applications (ie, either mgmt apps or very
intelligent drivers).

The point is, are there ANY apps out there that actually take advantage
of this bizarre mechanism?  (I'll bet the answer is "No")  Are there
any vendors with work in process that will use this mechanism?  (Again,
the money is on "No")

I'll bet that most--if not ALL--network printer vendors have completely
shifted their focus on configuration practices from raw SNMP to straight
up HTTP/HTML via standard web browser technologies.

As such, the use of "Chosen" and "Declared" by mgmt apps will probably
never see the light of day.

If this is true, then let's deprecate it.  Moreover, if what I have said
about the focus on HTTP/HTML is true, then there are probably MANY other
similar MIB objects that can also be deprecated.

We would be *very* interested in hearing others' opinions on this.

	...jay

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----- Begin Included Message -----

>From [email-masked] Fri Mar  7 20:24 EST 1997
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 13:51:39 MST
From: "Harry Lewis <[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: PMP> prtInputMedia...Dims

Harry Lewis

----- End Included Message -----

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From: Ron Bergman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:23:17 -0800 (PST)

Harry and Jay,

I certainly agree that the Concepts of "Chosen" and "Declared" leave
a lot of room for improvement.  In implementing the Printer MIB, prior
to my involvement with the PWG, I could not understand why the need to
differentiate between the two values.  As a result, the Dataproducts
implementation always returns the same value for both objects.

Jay, I agree with your conclusion that management apps are not likely
to take advantage of this mechanism and a deprecation in this area
is easily justified.

    ...Ron

At 18:13:26, Fri Mar 07 1997 JK Martin wrote:

Harry,

	...jay

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Harry Lewis

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From: [email-masked] (Caruso,Angelo)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:25:37 PST

Harry,

Sorry I missed this call (and all the other recent interop review 
 calls) but product development schedules dictate my time lately, as 
 you all can well appreciate. We do in fact implement DECLARED as r/w 
 for some products (the XPrint products, for example). And we do 
 actually use it as a way of configuring the printer to know what paper 
 size is in a tray for sizes that cannot be detected. Specifically we 
 have products which can detect typical sizes like letter, A4, and 
 legal, but cannot detect other sizes which the printer does in fact 
 support. So we use DECLARED as a way of telling the printer "hey I 
 know you can't detect what size is in tray 1 right now but, trust me, 
 it's 8 x 10". In this case, if you then load letter in tray 1, 
 DECLARED will still indicate 8 x 10, but CHOOSEN will change to 
 letter. Does this make sense to anyone? I believe it pushes the 
 definition of these objects to the limit, but we do use it this way.

Angelo

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From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Cc: "Harry Lewis <[email-masked]>"
Subject: PMP> prtInputMedia...Dims
Date: Friday, March 07, 1997 12:51PM

Harry Lewis

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From: Bob Pentecost <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:27:10 -0700

Speaking for the LaserJet 5Si, we implement the Declared/Chosen mechanism 
for Tray 1 which in the multi-purpose tray. If a size is Declared that is 
close (~0.1 inch, I think) to a supported size, then the Chosen size will 
be a supported size (e.g., if Declared is 8.4x11.1, 8.5x11 is Chosen); the 
Declared value is not changed by the printer.

For the other trays that sense the size of media loaded, the Declared 
objects are read-only.

Bob Pentecost
HP

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From:  Caruso,Angelo[SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:  Monday, March 10, 1997 9:26 AM
To:  [email-masked]
Cc:  "Harry Lewis <[email-masked]>"
Subject:  RE: PMP> prtInputMedia...Dims

Harry,

Angelo

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From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]

Harry Lewis