Subject: IPP> RE: Printer Instance Creation/Installation

From: [email-masked] (Zehler,Peter)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:13:32 PST

All,
I thought giving you the file name might be nice.  It is
"IPP-driver-issue.doc".  There is also a postscript
version.  (I still need to generate an acrobat version)
Cheers,
Pete
>All,
>I have placed a document that discusses these issues in the
> "contributions for discussion directory".   I have an MS Word and
>a postscript version of the document.   I need to convert the document
>to the Acrobat format.  I need help with this since I do not have an
>Acrobat writer.
>Cheers,
>Pete Zehler
>Xerox
----------
>From: [email-masked]
>To: 'Don Wright'; ipp%pwg.org
>Subject: IPP> RE: Printer Instance Creation/Installation
>Date: Thursday, December 05, 1996 10:48PM
>
>Don Wright wrote:
>
>>- how printer drivers for a specific printer are found
>>- how the drivers and supporting files are downloaded
>>- how these drivers and files are installed
>
>>Is this something we need to put in the "scenarios
>>document" Carl-Uno mentioned during Wednesday's conference
>>call?
>
>The "scenarios document" should mention the above.
>Also IPP/1.0 should define how to handle these.
>
>Without printer drivers, end user cannot print over Internet,
>although he/she can find a nice IPP printer through LDAP.
>
>Hiroyuki Sato
>Canon

---

From: Babak Jahromi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:46:37 -0800

I agree with you entirely. The two tasks of "printing over HTTP" and
"Browsing/installing of IPP printers" should be kept separate.  The apps
should not have to care they are printing to an IPP printer. 

Babak

>----------
>From: 	[email-masked][SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, December 17, 1996 5:25 PM
>To: 	[email-masked]
>Subject: 	Re: IPP> RE: Printer Instance Creation/Installation
>
>After reading Peter Zehler's document, I think that we have different
>understandings of how IPP will work on a PC.  I have assumed that the
>procedure that a user follows for finding a printer is separate from
>the print operation.
>
>For printer browsing, I would expect there would be some separate
>application possibly initiated through a web browser which would allow
>a user to specify printer characteristics and get back a list of
>printers.  A user could then add one or more of these printers to the
>desktop.  The operation of adding such a printer would install any
>necessary drivers to the PC, like any other add printer operation except
>that the drivers should come over the network and not request that the
>user insert the CD-rom.
>
>When a user wishes to print from an application, I would expect that
>the list of available printers might include some IPP printers, but the
>application not need be aware of this difference. The same GDI
>API's would be supported by the IPP driver.
>
>What do others think?  Do you agree with my understanding or do you
>see things the way Peter does?
>
>Bob Herriot
>
>
>

---

From: Carl-Uno Manros <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:29:22 PST

Bob,

if I recall correctly, one of our user requirements was that we would 
like to avoid having a separate print driver to install for every new network
printer that a user may want to use. Compare this to fax today - you do 
not expect the user to download a new piece of software for every new
fax address he/she wants to use. My hope would be that the "IPP print driver"
is a generic piece of software, which can be used for many different printers
in combination with a relatively short list of capabilities and options for a 
particular printer. This list could be stored locally or downloaded every
time. 
Am I too optimistic here? 

BTW, this kind of thing is what I mean with the need to start producing use
scenarios, as everybody usually has a favorite implicit scenario in mind
when discussing a subject, but everybody's scenario can of course be quite
different.  As long as we haven't written them down, we risk speaking past
each other.

Carl-Uno 

At 05:25 PM 12/17/96 PST, Robert Herriot wrote:
>> From [email-masked] Sat Dec 14 17:06:47 1996
>> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 20:06:49 -0500
>> From: JK Martin <[email-masked]>
>> Organization: Underscore, Inc.
>> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> To: IPP redirector <[email-masked]>
>> References:
<"<E078B13281E2667C>[email-masked]"@-SMF->
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Sender: [email-masked]
>> X-Lines: 22
>> 
>> Zehler,Peter wrote:
>> > 
>> > All,
>> An Adobe PDF file now exists for the file(s) described above:
>> 
>>
ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/contributions-for-discussion/IPP-driver-issue.
pdf
>> 
>> 	...jay
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --  JK Martin               |  Email:   [email-masked]          --
>> --  Underscore, Inc.        |  Voice:   (603) 889-7000              --
>> --  41C Sagamore Park Road  |  Fax:     (603) 889-2699              --
>> --  Hudson, NH 03015-4915   |  Web:     http://www.underscore.com   --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>
>

---

From: Babak Jahromi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:46:25 -0800

>Am I too optimistic here? 

"Generic" is synonym to "poor feature list". Why do we want to force
people who have invested in full feature printers to treat them like
monochrome fax machines? If people like to use Internet Printing as a
fax service, then the server can install the printer with a minimal
driver, and we can arrage that all Internet clients would have that
minimal driver. But beyond that, the driver would have to be downloaded
from the server. And the good thing is that the driver does not have to
know anything about the new protocol. i.e. no change is needed in
today's drivers.

Babak

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Herriot)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:13:39 -0800

> From [email-masked] Tue Dec 17 18:35:25 1996>
 
> Am I too optimistic here? 

When I used the word "driver" I was using the concept of program and files.
Someone mentioned in a earlier email that this was his concept of driver too.

In my case, I hope that there is a universal program as there is today
for many printers, especially PostScript printers.  But I would expect
that each printer would have its own ppd file which specifies custom
information.  It may be that only a ppd file needs to be installed on a
client or perhaps the IPP driver-program gets the ppd file information
it needs across the network for each print job and no local intallation
is needed.

So, I think that you are stating what I am stating. My definition of
driver is different, but the effect is the same.

---

From: Carl-Uno Manros <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:23:35 PST

>know anything about the new protocol. i.e. no change is needed in

OK. I can probably live with having at least a simple generic IPP driver 
that does not require explicit download in advance, with downloading and 
automatic installation in other cases. Do we have any expectations about 
the time needed to download a print driver over HTTP, using say in worst
case a 14.4 modem? Are there agreed naming conventions for drivers, so 
that the clients can identify if they already have the right driver 
installed, or do we need to come up with a driver naming scheme?

Carl-Uno

---

From: Don Wright <[email-masked]>
Date: 18 Dec 96 8:48:53 EST

I think we are getting all balled up in terminology.  In my thinking
there are two (at least)  "drivers" used for printing in the PC OS
(read Win95, WinNT, OS/2) world:

1) Printer Language Driver - generates the PostScript, PCL, etc.
     needed by the printer to render the job.

2) IPP/HTTP driver which takes the output from the Printer Language
      driver and transports it across the network to the destination.  Also
       handles responses from the far end.

In my case, the Printer Language Driver is unique for each printer or
printer family.  The IPP/HTTP driver is common across all printers.
This scenario is basically what we have today with print redirectors
which send the job to a Server using IPX/SPX, NetBEUI, etc.  I don't
see any way to have a universal Printer Language driver any more
than we can today.  Sure, everyone can install the Apple LaserWriter
driver and call it a "Universal PostScript" driver or they can install
an HP LaserJet 2 driver and call it a "Universal PCL" driver but
the functionality is of course very low.

I think the choice belongs to the user.  The user could:

1) Install a "Universal" language driver and live with the limitations

--or --

2) Install the printer's driver across the network living with the download
      time depending upon the user's connection method.

--or--

3) Install the printer's driver from the operating system's diskettes
      or CD-ROM if known and available.

Am I missing something?  I know in some cases, a PPD driven PostScript
driver is available.  In that case, the PPD may be all that needs to be
downloaded but even then, all the features of the printer may not be
available without using a custom printer language driver.

Comments?

Don

To: babakj%microsoft.com @ interlock.lexmark.com (Babak Jahromi) @ SMTP, 
IPP%pwg.org @ interlock.lexmark.com ("[email-masked]'") @ SMTP
cc:  (bcc: Don Wright)
From: cmanros%cp10.es.xerox.com @ interlock.lexmark.com (Carl-Uno Manros) @ SMTP
Date: 12/17/96 07:23:35 PM
Subject: RE: IPP> RE: Printer Instance Creation/Installation

Carl-Uno

---

From: "Harry Lewis <[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 08:57:36 MST

Babak, can you elaborate?

>................ And the good thing is that the driver does not have to

Harry Lewis - IBM Printing Systems

---

From: [email-masked] (Bill Wagner)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:43:15 -0500

The objective of using a 'standard' driver for a new printer is often  
     voiced, but seldom realized  if the full capabilities of the printer 
     are to be accessible to the user. My understanding of scenario agrees 
     with Bob's, although I have concerns about how the driver will be 
     obtained. Storing in the printer may be a memory problem; setting up a 
     site driver-server may be an installation problem; accessing a remote 
     site may be an access problem (not all IP addresses will have internet 
     access). But I suggest that this is an implementation detail to be 
     worked out by the manufacturer, and if his printer can use some 
     standard driver that already is in the workstation, all the better.
     
     Carl-uno's suggestion appears to be that there will be some common 
     printer language/minimum set of attributes associated with IPP, and I 
     find that of concern. It opens a very difficult area which I do not 
     think is critical to the general IPP objective. The reference to FAX 
     must also point out that one of the difficulties the IETF-FAX group 
     must face is setting a minimum universal capabilities (or providing 
     for feature negotiation). The features for FAX are much fewer than for 
     printers, and still it is a substantial problem. I suggest that IPP 
     concentrate on delivery and monitoring  and not get into the specifics 
     of the print job format, at least not as a primary objective.
     
     Bill Wagner, DPI, Division of Osicom Technologies

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: IPP> RE: Printer Instance Creation/Installation
Author:  Carl-Uno Manros <[email-masked]> at Internet
Date:    12/17/96 6:29 PM

Bob,

Carl-Uno